How to get the best from your G2 motor

This was a guide written by Mikey Johnson when he was racing at the DDMCR club as was Reigning stock dave champion.
Bear in mind this was what he did with the older spec of g2 and the new g2 doesnt require any of this to be competitive but its informative and may give you that little edge



The first thing I do to a motor when I get it is break-in the bushings. When the motor gets hot towards the end of the race the bushings contract and squeezes the shaft on the motor. I use Chemico grinding paste, also known as valve grinding paste, and some motor spray to break them in. Firstly, I take one of my old 540 motors and connect the shafts together so that I am not putting any voltage into the new motor. I take the valve grinding paste, using the fine side of the container, and motor spray (brake cleaner I use) and mix them together to make a small diluted amount inside an old spray paint top. Use just enough til its watery to pour over the bushing, paying attention not to put too much so it pours all over the back of the motor. The bushing is recessed a little bit so try to keep it just in there. I then connect 2 cells to the other motor and run it for about 10-15 minutes. When the motor cleaner and paste dry out pour a little bit of the mixture on the bushing again. Eventually there will be a lot of paste gathering around the shaft so just drip motor cleaner onto the bushing to dilute it again. Sometimes I even press with my finger to push the paste into the bushing while it is running. I have read that you could loosen up the bushing too much but I have yet to encounter this with all the motors that I have owned.

Once I have done all the above I remove the G2 motor from the other motor. I then spray out the new motor with motor cleaner and then connect it up to a 2 cell NIMH battery. Connect the positive lead of the motor to the positive lead of the battery and negative to negative. I always break-in my brushes this way as I have read that it some how advances the timing on the motor a tiny bit because the leading edge of the commutator's poles get chared. That means when you run your motor in reverse you will have slightly advanced timing. So when ever cleaning your motors or breaking them in run them pos to pos and neg to neg.

Now it's time to break-in the brushes on the motor. When looking into the motor you will see that the brushes are cerrated. I break-in the brushes all the way down til the cerrations are completely gone. Removing the cerrations creates a larger contact patch between the brushes and commutator creating better efficiency. I do this by getting some hot tap water in a plastic or glass container, like a large mayonaise jar. With the motor running I start dipping the motor into the water. I start with one minute increments and then check the brushes. If it needs more I just repeat (30 seconds). Now, I have had brushes break-in really fast and other times kinda slow so keep a watchful eye. You will notice the water in the container start to get quite dirty but don't worry. This shows you that the brushes are breaking-in. Once the brushes are broken in and I see that the cerrations are gone in I rinse the motor, still running, with warm water coming out of the tap. I then clean the motor out with motor spray, also still running, and let it dry.

When I connect my motor into my car I directly solder my motor. Overall better efficiancy they say. Once my motor is in my car I place the car sideways on its wheels and apply "Parma International T.Q. Bushing Oil #740" to which ever bushing is facing up. I put just a few drops, spin the wheels a bit and then let it sit for a few hours or sometimes over night leaving the car on it's side. It's just to make sure it soaked all the way down. You do not need to put to much. The reason I use bushing oil is that supposidly it holds up better to high temperatures than bearing oil.

And that's it. Your motor is broke in.

Some of this stuff I have said is already out there on the internet but to find it all in one place I hope it helps a few.

I have a few newer stronger magnet G2 Motors coming in and will try the same procedure as above. I have heard that you just need to put it on 3 volts for 15 minutes and to keep it cool during this period.

Motor Maintenance

This is very easy. After each race I spray motor cleaner onto a bent tip of a Q-tip. Bend the Q-tip first. If you spray the Q-tip then bend it, there is a good chance it will break so spray after. What you want to do is is use the angle of the Q-tip to access the commutator inside the motor. It is very easy to do, and I do this about 4 times. Just spin the rear wheels whilst holding the tip of the Q-tip on the commutator. The Q-tip will still come out dirty after the 4th go but it will be much cleaner than the initial swab. For assistance in doing this anyone can pretty much help you out here. If the person you ask can't answer your question or help you I can almost guarantee the person you are talking to will know someone who can, that's Mardave racing at it's best. That's also my experience at Leamington. So, 4th swab and you're ready for the next race. After the last final I do not clean it anymore until I do the next step below.

After every race day I unsolder the motor out of my car and spray it with motor cleaner. I let it sit a minute or two and again connect it up to a 2 cell NIMH battery. While it is spinning I pour diluted dishsoap directly inside the motor. The dilution is about 1/4 inch of dish soap to the rest of the bottle filled with water. I then dip the motor into a container with warm water again. For some reason, the brushes don't wear down as quickly. I think the heat of the motor changes the way the brushes wear or maybe it's the dish soap. After about 30 seconds in the water I then rinse the motor under the tap. I then clean with motor spray, let it dry, pop the motor back in and repeat the process of lubing the bushings by putting my car on it's sides.

Here is a little more on this subject if you have the time, there is something like 80 odd pages to read, although the first 20 has enough info. Happy reading.

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What are the G2 brushed motor specs?

Some places have them at 25 turns and some 24 turn.

I need a new one because I've just replaced my current one with a standard Machubi 540 silver can. I take it this won't be allowed in the Mardave stock class.

They are 23 turn machine wound four slotted can with NO fan on the armature. Easy to spot and identify against the hpi/ansman motors of lower winds.
The new canned motors with the four slots are far better and more equal than the older two slot ones and need no real black magic running in like the the old ones did.
They work great out the box.

Iv heared that the new G2 is around a 19t motor? Dont hold me on it tho. Il have to open one up and count them.

Id say that the tamiya silver can should be alright in the G2 class

But let gazza confirm it.

The one i took apart was a 23

I've emailed Mardave themselves for a definitive answer.

Demon Power products list them as [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Kings Lynn Model Shop list them as [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. This is just two examples of many that I've found.

Hopefully Mardave know for sure. Or, could this be the reason for people seeing a difference in performance when apparantly using the same motor. The original motor I was using was less than half the speed of others at Ardent last Sunday as some of you will have noticed. It was pathetically slow.

hence I went 13.5 brushless they change so much its daft

James and my self have some real good races as we both run 13.5 and if some one has a 10.5 its even easyer to spot



Tomo whats happened to post 1

ahh its back

Reply from the horses mouth, (not that I calling Chris a horse!!!)

Its is a 24 turn motor 0 timing
Chris

Cool that clears that up. mine must have been assembled with an old armature as that is a 23 but it was one of the first of the new ones.
Cant stress enough how much better the new ones are in terms of being similar performance between motors.

i'd be interested to know who actually make the G2 motors, by the design they look like Marbuchi cans, i.e. the same as you get with tamiya kits.. i know when they are supplied in the Tamiya kits (if you buy a tamiya kit such as a TT-01 or M03), basically Tamiya buy a load in bulk from marbuchi or Johnson & it's basically a lucky dip.. some are 27, 28, 29, some are 30 etc etc, it just depends what they get from the suppliers & on occasion you may be lucky & get a motor with a low wind. The only certainty is the Tamiya black-can (sport tuned) as they are a 23t marbuchi motor & i've often wondered if the G2's are in fact the same motor, of course not painted black & without Tamiya stickers on.

in similar discussion (he says going slightly off topic) there seems to be a lot of similarity between the HPI saturn motors & the Ansmann clash motors, however most people i've spoken with say the HPI motors are slightly better than the Ansmann & the Clash 18 is about as quick as running the Saturn 20 & in my own experience i've found the Clash 21 to be the best all-rounder of the clash motors, the lower wind motors have no torque but can trip a speedo easily & the high wind motors have no speed but loads of torque.

A good tip of course for silvercan motors is one that has been around for years, is of course wet-dipping. this helps bed the brushes in & some people suggest the use of comm-drops & other stuff to treat the comm, but in my own personal opinion you can't beat a blob of brasso on the end of a cotton-bud lightly wiped on the comm, which can be a tad tricky if the motor is running an internal fan & of course a drop of 3-in-1 on the rotor bushes once in a while to trap any crud & stop the dirt working it's way in.

I've always used the Brasso and cotton bud method for the comm. It brings them up like new.

I don't rate the Ansmann Clash motors at all. Over the last couple of years I've had 3 of them and each one melted! They were run in a Tt-01 and in a MadRat, both of which were geared correctly. They are just a cheap and rubbish motor as far as I'm concerned.

The whole ethos behind the Mardave is cheap racing and so there probably is inconsistency in the amount of winding. As you say they probably buy them in a bulk shipment and just get what they are given.

I would say that these mardave motors are of all the same windings as eachother
Also you are correct they were specialy made for mardave by mabuchi and are around 24/23 turn

stox217 wrote:Also you are correct they were specialy made for mardave by mabuchi and are around 24/23 turn

"around" a figure is not really good enough, especially if it's a control motor that should be identical to the next one... it's a bit like me turning up at a 10.5 event with a 9 turn brushless & then arguing saying "well it's around 10.5 so i should be allowed to race with them.

What i was men't to say is that there either 23 or a 24 turn motor i don't know untill i get to open one up to count the windings. Hope thats clearer.

Gazza wrote:

mad-wolfie wrote: "around" a figure is not really good enough, especially if it's a control motor .

Hence why I have had enough of the Brushed setup

but there again, this isn't a perfect solution.. Mardave (for as long as i've known about RC cars & long before i was into the hobby) have always been regarded as the "budget class" as in you can race a car than cost £40-£60 to buy the kit & the parts cost pennies to replace when they break & every car is equal spec, surely Brushless takes this element away from it, as well as the equality factor. Yet this is why "some" people are turning their backs on certain classes of racing, because the economics & the rules are totally unfair & the down to earth fun aspect has been taken away. So surely if Marbuchi are supplying motors of different winds this isn't equal or fair & it becomes a lucky dip.

On the subject of Brushless motors in Mardave's I really can't see the sence in a budget class where the motor & speedo can cost 5 times the cost (& probably a years worth of running costs) of the price of the car.. IMHO this is no different to the kids who buy TT-01's & stick the fastest motor they can find in the car when the car is intended as a budget class racing car & run to old-school "off the shelf" methods.... or in some cases in the 1:1 scale world, it's no different than the the 18 year olds who buy a clapped out old Corsa for £400 & then spend £1000 on the stereo, foglamps & stickers & about 20p on the MOT prep!

I know we have to move with the times, but even so when i had a brief go at Mardave racing a few months back, most of the cars still had wipe-type mechanical speedo's in them (because they worked & cost peanuts) & brushless motors were frowned upon because the people i raced with are of the mindset all they do is mean you crash a lot faster.. surely if you want a car to go fast & to fit a fully-spec'd brushless sp the car goes a million MPH, the best thing to do would be to put it into a chassis worthy of it in the 1st place & one designed for such a purpose, not a car intended for (want of a better phrase) cheap thrills. If you want to run Brushless, then by all means do so, but let's have some sort of cap to say the spec is suitable & the costs are within the parameters of the cost of the car i.e. cheap & cheerful, if only on the grounds of fairness. after all, the reason many of us (in all the electric classes) switch from brushed to brushless is because of the lack of faffing around.

Officially they are 24 turn. We had this discussion in another thread so I emailed Chris at Mardave and asked him. But one member on here took one apart and it was 23 turn and some shops I've asked have taken them apart and found some with 25 turns, 24 turns and 23 turns.

They are supposed to be 24 turn, but when buying that cheap you no doubt just get what your given. My last G2 motor was only half the speed of some when we were running at Ardent and everyone was running the same gearing and batteries. There's definitely a lot of inconsistency and as Ian said when used as a control motor you need to know they are very consistent.

There are some valid points made above but the idea that mardave means budget is slightly incorrect I believe it's unfair to call mardave the budget class as there are cheaper rtr chassis out there from china etc these days. It is the first class a beginner should race and as you say the cost, simplicity and fun racing should reflect this.

As for the consistency of the g2s out the shops it can be difficult sometimes as the motors could have been say there for awhile etc And not be as good. Mr mardave dynoed all the motors at last years gp to ensure they were all consistent with each other. When I have ordered a couple of motors at a time direct from mardave and dynoed them they have been damn near identical from the new batch.

However there are some racers who have got fed up with the cost nature and attitude you find within some classes of racing. Tc racing I'm mostly talking about here where you see some races and drivers shouting at each other, covering cars up in the pita incase someone steals their set up.
I've been there and got fed up quick. So I went back to mardaves. Because the parts cost little the racers usually don't get annoyed with alittle bumping and you can walk up to any racer in the pits and they will lend you a part just like that.
As for it being pointless putting more power into a mardave than it can handle, well simply I see it as a test of a drivers ability. Anybody with alittle talent can steer a tc round a track with 4wd sticky Tyres and hours of perfected set up. It takes a great deal more to drive a mardave with more power than grip, and there in lays what enjoyment I get from racing the mardave brushless control system in my car which is consistent and is maintenance free and no timing advance options. You all get the same motor speedo and pit card.

You must also remember that most mardave clubs don't have a hall the size of ardent to run in so 12th scale is the best option given the space and mardaves strength and parts price make it an obvious choice. Which means when drivers want to go faster at their club they have the option of traveling to a bigger club and buying a tc etc or bolting in a faster motor and staying where their mates race.

Again it's each to there own, just my view.

I don't see anything wrong in making a Mardave quicker. In fact I've currently got a 12 turn brushed in mine! I need a 12t pinion though as the acceleration could be better. As you say the more power going through the wheels makes for more care needed. A standard G2 motor in there and you can pretty much just drive with the throttle wide open all the time.

I agree also about some of the TC drivers going over the top. I've been shouted on the rostrum and I just ignore them. Some take the hobby too seriously and just stress themselves to the point you think their going to have a coronary! When that point is reached the enjoyment has gone and it's time to move on for the sake of your health and the sake of others around you.

I've just ordered myself a F1 car because of the friendly and clean racing this class offers. The cars are much more prone to damage so most take great care. It makes for some very close and exciting racing, which to me means fun. And fun, for me, is the be all and end all in this great hobby.

Allow me to welcome you to f1 racing it is a great class and I love it. Cant wait for the first round of the winter series to actually race against some other f1's again.
p.s what car you bought? put pics up in f1 section

It's not here yet and I've been banned from playing with it till Christmas.

It's the 3 Racing F1-09 and it's my Christmas present from the missus. I got the last one listed for £80 delivered.

Wow good price! Nice work! Shame about the wait till Xmas tho lol

Well Ian . . .

Taken from the Mardave Brushless thread . . .

Basicly for the life of me I could never get MY G2 motors to go as good as the other top drivers. . .
at the time I NEVER won a race after 2yrs I was / am a good driver but power to match the top guys was a no no

so what would normal people do . . .pack up . . . move to TC or 1/12th

WHY must this happen then the 1/12th guys have 1sLiPo

I wanted to run a 1s LiPo in a Mardave with a Brushless system that WOULD
be the same as a G2 motor . . . .


I tried a few combinations and they all failed like
Way to fast to slow motors burning out speedos cutting out etc so I have done
all the hard work for you all and the 13.5 with a 1S LiPo with the Smart boost is
all that is needed

the black art of G2 tunning is a must and I never did master it

Now im classed as one of the top Mardave drivers and can give any one with a GOOD G2 a run for there money

So no I did not pack up and go model boating etc I just used the technoligy that was out there to better the Dave . . .
Yes I can turn the power up and win all races by 5 laps but that defeats the mardave class I wanted to run with the top boys and have fun

Now its taken off there is a lot more people going this route and the mardave class is very much alive and doing well with 2 heats at Ardent and most other club nights dont get me wrong please all start off with the G2 and 4 cells then when you get good at it come and get a 13.5 and 1s LiPo and see even more fun .
I think to day at Hinckley there were 6 of us running these and Nick was running a G2 and 4 cells and it was very much a close race

COST'S

Well thats down to the indavidual who wants to run what they like yes why pay £100's of pounds for a Motor esc etc well its to get the best out of it same as some people use £30 of radio gear heck I did . . .

Then I wanted the switch / dial to adjust the steering ( rates switch ) the £30 radio does not have it but the KO does
Every one laughs at us with what we are doing but the cost to repair run a dave is peanuts

Hell we laugh at the 1/12th guys you buy expensive tyres and true them down to 3 mill

where we use the full diameter and they cost us £4 for a rear set so its horse's for course's I guess

Mind you the guy at Ardent running a 1/12th could not believe it when I turned my power up and blew him away now that was funny my little Dave out did a 1/12th down the straight and a few corners untill he took it off

Yes i do have to admit today was very close.
The track seemed to suit bushless a little more than last weeks track so it did bring it close!
More like that next time

Also i take back what i said about the tekin ect.
Gazza did have it turned all the way down and was comparable to the top lads in the A final.

Thanks Nick

Pity the sensor lead fell off in the heats I would have loved to have been in the A with you guys

Yes James before you have a go I only made the B but what a good days racing and all so close with the laps and Times

Roll on Ardent next sunday