Ardent brushless rollout

I was planning on having a dabble with my brushless car this weekend at Ardent.

Does anyone know a ballpark figure of what rollout to run with 13.5t, 1s lipo and no boost etc?

cheers

Karl

Hi Karl

Well its all down to what motor you run but as a starting point look around 68/27 and see whats its like what motor is it

Gazza wrote:Hi Karl

Well its all down to what motor you run but as a starting point look around 68/27 and see whats its like what motor is it

I'm running an Orion Vortex at the moment but I'm running 32dp as I despise the diff!

What size rear tyres are you running?

Karl

no idea with 32 dp see the gear chart site but i think around 48/17 bt will c u there sunday to help you out

I'm currently running a 70/30 on 48dp diff think I need a 31t pinion!!? Losi 13.5 with Novak gtb2

Can I ask why you dont like the diff?

4_cell_racer wrote:I'm currently running a 70/30 on 48dp diff think I need a 31t pinion!!? Losi 13.5 with Novak gtb2

Can I ask why you dont like the diff?

Ok cheers I've gone with 73/29 for a starting point.

The reason I don't like the diff is becaus it never stays consistent throughout the run. Because of the way the diff is made, the diff plates do not run true and as a result can offer a tighter or slacker diff setting from one corner to the next. The diff could also do with "D" shaped diff rings to prevent slipping and a ballrace in the centre of the spur would help too.

I have built up a new diff with the "D" shaped diff rings and kimborough spur gear for this weekend to enable me to use 48dp, although this is pointless as I have locked it up anyway!

If the car is set up correctly there really is no need for a diff.

Karl

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Couple of pics of my brushless car

looks well neat & tidy

Gazza wrote:looks well neat & tidy

As always.....nice n tidy Karl

Don't forget to weigh the car to make sure its 1kg mine was 90 odd g's under and JD's was way over 100g's :-o

yea it does look a tad light

what does it weigh Karl

Gazza wrote:yea it does look a tad light

what does it weigh Karl

845g ready to race lol

ginnnga wrote:

Gazza wrote:yea it does look a tad light

what does it weigh Karl

845g ready to race lol

Wow your gonna have fun putting 155g's on ya Dave

I stuck a load under my lipo to hide it

Wow thats gonna be fun for sunday Karl . . .

I know Graham is a stickler for the rules . . .


So where you gonna place all the lead front back middle ?

And even an ABS shell may help

Or put your cell holder onto the chassis Karl.....I know it don't weigh much but it's added weight

4_cell_racer wrote:Or put your cell holder onto the chassis Karl.....I know it don't weigh much but it's added weight

Yeah il do that. I was thinking the limit was 900g with running lipo, as i couldnt see how it would be logical having the same weight limit for brushless and lipo as brushed and cells. This is turning out to be more trouble than it's worth!

ginnnga wrote:

4_cell_racer wrote:Or put your cell holder onto the chassis Karl.....I know it don't weigh much but it's added weight

Yeah il do that. I was thinking the limit was 900g with running lipo, as i couldnt see how it would be logical having the same weight limit for brushless and lipo as brushed and cells. This is turning out to be more trouble than it's worth!

I thought the same Karl! But no same as nimh's

Maybe at the AGM someone could put a puposal forward to lower the weight limit for Lipo Daves??

4_cell_racer wrote:

ginnnga wrote:

4_cell_racer wrote:Or put your cell holder onto the chassis Karl.....I know it don't weigh much but it's added weight

Yeah il do that. I was thinking the limit was 900g with running lipo, as i couldnt see how it would be logical having the same weight limit for brushless and lipo as brushed and cells. This is turning out to be more trouble than it's worth!

I thought the same Karl! But no same as nimh's

Maybe at the AGM someone could put a puposal forward to lower the weight limit for Lipo Daves??

Which Agm? I think this is an ardent rule

4_cell_racer wrote:I'm currently running a 70/30 on 48dp diff think I need a 31t pinion!!? Losi 13.5 with Novak gtb2

70/31 at TRCC with Trinity D3, motor on zero timing

Mine weigh's in at 970g's

ginnnga wrote:

Yeah il do that. I was thinking the limit was 900g with running lipo, as i couldnt see how it would be logical having the same weight limit for brushless and lipo as brushed and cells. This is turning out to be more trouble than it's worth!

Ahh another one not read the rules LOL


4cell G2 and 1s Lipo brushless is 1000g

4cell and Brushless is 1150g (due to the voltage of 4.8 where the lipo is only 3.7v hence the weight penalty)

3cell and brushless is 1000g

Gazza wrote:

ginnnga wrote:

Yeah il do that. I was thinking the limit was 900g with running lipo, as i couldnt see how it would be logical having the same weight limit for brushless and lipo as brushed and cells. This is turning out to be more trouble than it's worth!

[color=red]Ahh another one not read the rules LOL

I've read the rules, i just dont think they have been thought out properly. If i were to put a 4 cell pack in my car, it would be bang on 1kg. And if there is a 150g difference between 4 cell and lipo, wouldn't it be more logical to have the weight limit at 850g or 900g? It would save people having to mess about putting ballast on their car un-necessarily.

if you read the rules then where did the 900g come from

HERE AT LAST
(FOR THE PROPOSED BRCA SECTION)

2011 MARDAVE CIRCUIT CAR CONSTRUCTION RULES

CHASSIS AND COMPONENTS

GENERAL CONSTRUCTION RULES

Cars to be Mardave V12 or Caterham 7 based chassis and suspension. The car chassis plate may be drilled / cut-out to improve weight distribution / cooling, providing no sharp edges are left. No composite chassis allowed
Ball races allowed on both front and rear axles.
Either 32 or 48 dp pinion and spur gear may be used.
Mardave Differentials will be allowed.
Car suspension and wheel carriers shall remain as kit although any commercially available springs may be used.
The use of countersunk holes and screws on the underside of the chassis is recommended but not mandatory.
Body mounts may be changed or altered.
Wiper board mounting plate may be changed, altered or removed.
The motor may be fitted to either side of the pod, either directly or via a spacer/plate(to prevent heat transfer and softening of the blocks, or for weight distribution) providing that there are no alterations to the mounting blocks.(Thinning of pod to give clearance to motor wires, drilling of a hole for access to pinion grub screw and/or addition of tie bar to prevent distortion are permissible)
No external bumpers are permitted, although a firm foam internal bumper is mandatory on the front.(10mm minimum cross section)
Any make of servo, servo saver or track rod ends may be used on the cars steering system.

SUPERDAVE

As above but composite chassis allowed. Dimensions not to exceed those of the standard chassis and must be one piece, i.e. no “T” bar or link style. Wheelbase and track as V12 kit.

BODYSHELL

Any commercially available body shell manufactured specifically for the Mardave V12 in either ABS or Lexan may be used. Shells from manufacturers other than Mardave and Kamtec must be submitted to the committee for approval. Realistic representations of full size racing cars positively encouraged.

NOTE, NO 1/12 WEDGES. The shell must remain securely fixed to the car throughout the race. Windows may be cut out on ABS shells.
No supplementary aerofoils or fins shall be fitted to the body with the exception of a realistic size rear wing if desirable.
This wing must be non metallic, commercially available and securely fixed.
The body shell can be decorated to suit the individuals taste providing all coatings are of a permanent nature
The rear of the body shell should remain intact, i.e. not cut-out above the lower bumper line.

ELECTRICS
STANDARD BRUSHED

Any type, make and capacity of speed controller may be used providing it includes reverse.(MAX UK rrp £69.99)
Cars to use four cells only, cells to be sub-C sized cells only, with a nominal voltage of 1.2 volts per cell, cells to be NiCad and Nimh’s only. Battery mountings may be changed from the original.
Brushed Motors will be the Mardave G2 unit; At a National or GP, these motors will be issued to competitors at the time of booking in.(INCLUDED IN ENTRY FEE) Additional ‘control’ motors will be available during the meeting. No other motors are allowed.
Under no circumstances are fan motors, re-buildable motors, fitting of external bearings or skimming of motor commutators allowed.
Heatsinks with cooling fans are allowed.

STOCK BRUSHLESS 13.5

Only forward / reverse Brushless ESC’s with NO TURBO or BOOST or on the fly timing advance function from the following list may be used:-

Fusion: - Exceed (Sport, Race, Pro)

Castle Creations: - MambaMaxPro.

LRP:- A.I BrushlessReverse, Ai Brushless Pro Reverse, SPX Brushless Reverse, - SPX Brushless Bullet Reverse.

Nosram: - Evil Reverse, Evil Power Reverse, Matrix Brushless Reverse, Matrix Power Brushless Reverse

Novak: - GTB (GTB 4 Cell, GTB, GTB Spectrum) GTB2, Havoc 1 Cell, Havoc Sport.

Tekin:- R1(sensor less)

Other suitable ESC’s may be added from time to time

Anyone wishing to use an esc not on the above list should submit said esc to the committee for checking and inclusion into the rules
NOTE: - Please make your own checks on compatibility with regards to reverse function and 1s lipo use.
Brushless motors to have a minimum of 13.5 turns and a maximum UK rrp of £75.00
Cars to use 1s Lipo 3.7 volt batteries. In the short term, 4cell Nims 4.8 volt may be used but with a 150g weight penalty. 3cell Nims 3.6 volt may also be used without penalty. Note:- weight difference between 1s lipo and 4 cell Nimh is approx. 150g
Plastic whip aerials are allowed
Battery mountings may be changed from original.
Fitting of additional bearings to support the motor shaft are allowed.


SUPERDAVE

Any forward / reverse or forward only Brushless ESC with NO TURBO or BOOST or on the fly timing advance function may be used.
Cars with no reverse are used at drivers own risk and must have a fluorescent sticker on the roof
The Mardave G2BL system may be used.
NOTE: - Please make your own checks on compatibility with regards to reverse function and 1s lipo use.
Brushless motors other than the one in the Mardave G2BL system to be 10.5 turn minimum. Maximum UK rrp of £75.00
4 Cell nimh may be used until the end of 2011 or until the end of a series if it continues into 2012.
Plastic whip aerials are allowed.
Battery mountings may be changed from original.
Fitting of additional bearings to support the motor shaft are allowed.
Composite chassis allowed. Dimensions not to exceed those of the standard chassis and must be one piece, i.e. no “T” bar or link style. Wheelbase and track as V12 kit.

TYRES

The tyres may be changed from the original kit tires
Tires to be Min 20mm Max 26mm width and have a Max 60mm diameter. No minimum diameter for tires, but the tire must cover the wheel. Any foam tire make or compound allowed.
GENERAL SETUP

Any commercially available tyre additive may be used providing it is non toxic, odourless and any excess is removed from the surface of the tyres and tyres to be ‘Touch Dry’ prior to the start of the race.
Minimum car ride height will be no lower than 3mm, 1mm at the spur gear.
Minimum car weight is 1kg (1000g). Brushless with 4 cells Nimh is 1150g.
Commercially available comm. drops may be applied to the motor commutator PLEASE NOTE

Any car not conforming to the above rules will still be allowed to race but will NOT gain any championship points.
ANY manufactures new parts or bodyshells must be readily available to everyone at least 28 days prior to a national or GP race meeting for inclusion.

ginnnga wrote:I've read the rules, i just dont think they have been thought out properly. If i were to put a 4 cell pack in my car, it would be bang on 1kg. And if there is a 150g difference between 4 cell and lipo, wouldn't it be more logical to have the weight limit at 850g or 900g? It would save people having to mess about putting ballast on their car un-necessarily.

They have been thought out properley and as this will explain and you will go Ahhh I get it . . .

weight is there to be compatable with the G2 & 4 cell so a 1s lipo and 13.5 can race together in the same class and heat if the Lipo car was lighter then its not compatable with the G2 and 4 cell

Gazza wrote:

ginnnga wrote:I've read the rules, i just dont think they have been thought out properly. If i were to put a 4 cell pack in my car, it would be bang on 1kg. And if there is a 150g difference between 4 cell and lipo, wouldn't it be more logical to have the weight limit at 850g or 900g? It would save people having to mess about putting ballast on their car un-necessarily.

They have been thought out properley and as this will explain and you will go Ahhh I get it . . .

weight is there to be compatable with the G2 & 4 cell so a 1s lipo and 13.5 can race together in the same class and heat if the Lipo car was lighter then its not compatable with the G2 and 4 cell

Haha, fair enough. I may have to construct a lead lipo mount or something! See you tomorrow.