V12 Circuit Rules

I was going to post this under the 'Chris Wilkinson' thread but that seems to be going a bit off the topic...

My thoughts on the V12 Circuit car rules?

Well, we need some, especially if racers want to race at different clubs. Individual clubs certainly have the right to modify their own club rules to suit their specific needs (we habe done this at WSMCC) but for conformaty and national series etc then 'standard' rules need to be agreed. And my persional thoughts are that these need to be separate from the oval rules simply because the circuit racing is so very different.

At WSMCC we have looked at all the various 'rules' that have been circulating for the last few months and plucked the best bits that best suit our club and our racers. In short we have gone for:-

Dimensions - wheelbase and track as kit V12. 1000g weight limit for LiPo power, 1150 for 4-cell NiMH. 3.5mm min ride height.
Chassis - Kit aluminium one or Banger replacement. Kit one may have rear kickup flattened and both must be countersunk. Drilling to lighten is allowed but no one bothers. Club can supply direct copy of the Banger chassis in GRP if racers want to avoid tweak in crashes (but, again, no one has bothered so far).
Steering - steering blocks to be as kit (standard or ball raced) but kingpins and track rods and ball cups can be any comercially available.
Suspension - any comercially availalbe springs front or rear (but almost everyone used Mardave silvers).
Servo - any type and this can have additional chassis holes drilled for it to locate it in a different place if needed.
Bearings - front and rear are allowed.
Diff - allowed. 32, 48 or 64 pitch gearing is allowed but almost everyone goes for Mardave 48.
Motor - Brushed has to be the Mardave G2 unit. Brushless can be any make with a minimum wind count of 13.5t.
Speedo - Any type. No price limit for brushed. Brushless units can have turbo/boost availalbe but this must be disabled (blinky mode or equivalent is perfectly acceptable).
Batteries - 4-cell or 1s LiPo from BRCA approved lists. LiPos must be charged in LiPo sacks.

That's about it really. The biggest deviation we have from the other variations is how we allow ESCs with blinky mode to be used. Since most of us use 1s LiPo we found this to be the best way since it gets over the problems of adding receiver packs or boosters. There are some really good units out there for not too much cash (HobbyWing 1s is popular) that run perfectly well on 1s voltages and our members appreciate the choice available. It is really easy to spot if someone has their boost turned on and we plan to deal with this efficiently - they will get a polite warning and a reminder of the rules, then a not so polite warning and then they would be asked to race somewhere else! So far we have not had to warn anyone, people appreciate the close racing that we get more than the desire to cheat.

For us this works. We have tried faster motors (10.5t) but these were just too fast. OK, so great fun in a straight line but the cars simply ran out of ideas whenever you pointed them into a corner. It is the same with boosted speedos - too fast. Either option gave you more power than grip so be moulded our rules to suit. We run all cars on the track at the same time - 4-cell brushed, 1s brushless and even the odd SuperDave. Speeds are not that different and we have championships for each class so no one is really racing the other types.

I think this is how it has to be. Rules are needed but also need to be flexible. New technology needs to be welcomed and embraced. If someone goes out of their way to cheat then ban the person (such as adding their own blinky LED to a speedo...), NOT the technology!

James

These look like a fantastic set of rules to me James. Simple yet effective which is great as too many rules will put people joining the section.

The only things I would change are:

JimboJames1972 wrote:I was going to post this under the 'Chris Wilkinson' thread but that seems to be going a bit off the topic...
Dimensions - wheelbase and track as kit V12. 900g weight limit for LiPo power, 1050 for 4-cell NiMH. 3.5mm min ride height.

The weight values I have added are nearer the weights that each of these cars come in at with no lead on them. It would just avoid the possibility of people having to use so much weight on their car which could potentially put them off.

JimboJames1972 wrote:I was going to post this under the 'Chris Wilkinson' thread but that seems to be going a bit off the topic...

Chassis - Kit aluminium one or Banger replacement. Kit one may have rear kickup flattened and both must be countersunk. Drilling to lighten is allowed but no one bothers. Club can supply direct copy of the Banger chassis in GRP if racers want to avoid tweak in crashes (but, again, no one has bothered so far).

I would also involve carbon chassis in this section of the rules to be legal. Companies out there do make them and we want to make sure that we support all the companies that make parts for the mardave.


Please don't take this as criticism as you have done a great job there and these are only my opinions

Sorry, weights were a silly typo! Weight for 1s LiPo is 1000g, 1150 for 4-cell. In my 1s car I have to add about 60g of weights, all of which is in the front bumper to get the GoC closer to the mid-point between the wheels.

As for carbon chassis, we did consider it but we fell into the 'cost' trap. I can get a 2.4mm GRP chassis done for around £6 each but carbon would be much more. Of course, if Mardave come up with a carbon chassis for their touring V12 then we will open the rules up to this too. The GRP option was simply to offer something that did not tweak so readily as the aluminium ones. However, like I said, no one has really tried the GRP versions (except for me on my SuperDave - I have also widened it slightly where the cells sit for easier fitment of battery mounts).

These rules work for us - they give close and fair racing and no one really has to bust the bank.

James

Simple straight forward and look good no complicated stuff bang on james

Another word on our choice of 'blinky' speedos being alowed.

The ones people use at the club are the Hobbywing 1s, LRP SXX Stock Spec, Nosram Pearl, Black Diamond and Novak GTB2.

First is the cost thing. A HobbyWing 1s has proved to be the cheapest version when bought new. It can be bought for £90 from UK sources (or just £70 if you want to buy overseas). The next cheapest seems to be the GTB2 at arounf £105 (as quoted from my local model shop). However, the HW offers better voltages and current to receiver and servo so your electrics work better.

Second is reliability. I have 'killed' 4 boosters over the last few months. 2 RCDynamics ones, one Novak and one un-named one off eBay. I know several others who have done the same (but I must admit I know some who have had no problems either). However, no one I know has had problems of ANY type with any of their 1s speedos at the club. Add to this a repeat of the cost problem and getting a booster seems just to add £30 or so to your bill, until it fails on you and then you buy another. Bit of a no-brainer if you ask me.

Last is the blinky option. We run blinky mode (where the speedo has it) and it is up to the driver to prove his boost is disabled if challenged by the scrutineer if his unit has no blinky mode. To date there have been no problems.

Banning blinky mode speedos simply because of one fool re-wiring his speedo to cheat seems beyond idiotic to me. Sorry if this sounds strong, but believe me, this is the polite version. That guy went out of his way to cheat, planned it and must have taken some considerable time to achieve his goals. It was no accident, it was 100% intentional cheating. And the result - someone decides to ban all blinky speedos on the assumption that "if the temptation is available then someone will use it". Tar all sinners with the same brush?

How about if someone at a National Touring Car meeting is caught over-voltaging his LiPo cells? This can easilly be done and needs nothing more than a turn of a screwdriver in the correct pot inside your charger. Do the scrutineers trun around and ban all LiPo cells for all classes on the spot? No, of course they dont! They ban the idiot who went out of his way to cheat. This has been done and, if you consider the other safety implications - over-voltaging a LiPo and the fire/explosion risk compared to turning off blinky and going a bit faster, I can honestly say I have no idea where the blinky ban came from!

My club is keeping blinky mode. It offers more options, is not expensive and is easy to monitor. If anyone knows the date and location of the AGM I am more than happy to add this to the discussion.

James

Good rules but ironic that they almost exclude the Mardave brushless system, even if guys don't like it, can't deny it exists, and it's a Mardave part!

Oh no, we don;t excluse it. Far from it, if someone plans to race with it they will get all the help, support and assistance they need!

A fellow racer has just fitted one to replace his old speedo/motor setup and now swears by it!

The only issue we have had is that some units do not seem to like certain Spektrum / 2.4GHz systems and won't allow you to set your end points with the handset. No one has had such problems if they have used 40MHz systems but it has meant some racers have had to make different choices.

James

LOL where were you when this all started some good points there


Nice Jimbo but James has already set the rules but hope you turn up at the AGM to put these forward
you will be there wont you ?

I'm certainly planning to attend, Gazza. Where and when is it?

James

October . . . Stoke on trent way

That will be one hell of a trek from Sunny Suffolk! No matter, getting this sorted right first time around is important so I'll be there.

James

Jimbo i to wish u was around mate as well as you seem to have your heart and head in the right place mate. Maybe you should speak to james on here. I am sure the two of you could come up with a wining formula. I to will be there at the agm. Do pm me or gazza

just posted via FB, Mardave Circuit Rules V6!

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chequered_flag_racing wrote:just posted via FB, Mardave Circuit Rules V6!

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These look spot on. Especially blinky

ginnnga wrote: Especially blinky

+1, though some will still disagree, how they are

Yes, great news on blinky!

However, these are only proposed, so I'm guessing it may all change at the AGM next year?

One thought though, the CE chassis is not mentioned, just the V12 chassis?

James

Hope no-one minds but I've borrowed your rules for our new club in Colchester (Essex micro racers club)
We have been racing mini z for about 8 years now but due to falling numbers it was decided to try mardave/gt12 class to see if we can grow the club,