winter series

Why do we need to change anything now when were half way through the series?
The only thing that needs changing is the additive rule!

Nick we not changing any think just discussing the rules ?

Tomo says brca rules

and I say there isnt any

and there is not .. . . just some guy who just happens to be a brca member who likes Mardaves

thats all

TOMO wrote:So I think maybe its a test season for it before its put into the handbook.

not untill you have

1 chairmen
2 sectatary
3 treasure
4 committie


So are we all off to to the brca to form the v12 circuit rules at tha AGM

TOMO wrote:As soon as the rules were used they became the current rules. Ardent would have been the exception due to the fact they were a last minute replacement for Dudley and so wouldnt have been part of the initial decision making.

Yes but thats only for the Mardave series tho Tomo. As other clubs run 6 cell 10.5 motors etc and additive

Therefore if XX club ran a Mardave series they would use them rules but next week they would go back to there club rules

Like Ardent you all ran there with No additive but us mardave users not in the series later on in the our heat ran with additive and to Ardents rules . . . which is any thing goes I think LOL

Any way Just looked on Hinckley site and the rules for the Mardave GP 2010

Std v12 hotrods ( Hand out motors ) you cant run a v12 circuit car only a hot rod what a Joke

V12 mardave brushless

caterhams ( Hand out motors )

mardave sidecars ( Hand out motors )

So i cant run me 13.5 & 1sLiPo

Ah I see I may not have been clear enough in my intentions for pushing a nationally singular set of rules for mardave circuit.
I do think for the beautifully illiustrated reason above in gazzas posts a single set of recognised rules would benefit racers. Gazza loves 13.5 1s lipo and after ardent has embraced the class he can run it there in a championship but his home club (I think) has left no room for him to run it at the mardave gp. The gp is arguably the premier mardave event in the country but doesn't allow for 13.5 1s lipo.
So?
Well this is a problem for anyone who wants to race in the two high profile races at ardent and hinkley with a brushless as there's two sets of rules for each club. A set of agreed (not nesisarialy brca sanctioned) rules would solve this.

Of course if your running brushed g2 class then you will have no trouble running at both amazing clubs.

Also Gaz maybe move this into mardave section and leave ardent section for any questions etc relating directly to the series? I don't have mod tools in this room so I differ to you

TOMO wrote:Gazza loves 13.5 1s lipo and after ardent has embraced the class he can run it there in a championship but his home club (I think) has left no room for him to run it at the mardave gp.
The gp is arguably the premier mardave event in the country but doesn't allow for 13.5 1s lipo.

Not Really Tomo the rules are from the Ark and the committee is made up from NON drivers and dads . . .who's son runs a Touring Car

We have struggled every year on the Dave section they have no idea what people are running these days heck it was only recently they allowed LEXAN SHELLS thats how bad they are

Thats the Problem Tomo I started the class up about 2 years ago I think we now have or did have a full heat of 13.5 but NO ONE ran the Mardave system .

As Im aware Dean was pushing for the 13.5 class for the GP but not seen him for weeks so no idea whats going on

The club is still in the past re on road and there is a few that have had enough and moving to Ardent for next year and I may be one of them as well


like you say
" The gp is arguably the premier mardave event in the country but doesn't allow for 13.5 1s lipo "

Well acording to there rules you cant even run a V12 circuit car only a HOT ROD
Its nothing to do about the 13.5 LiPo its all about bringing it in line with the times so in theory Like I said you cant even run your beloved Mardave brushless but you can run a HOT ROD

and last but not least

"Ah I see I may not have been clear enough in my intentions for pushing a nationally singular set of rules for mardave circuit."

Oh what rules did you write then or help on

Ok so just to re cap

1 At the moment there is no Mardave V12 onroad BRCA rules

2 to get any rules it into the BRCA hand book that section MUST first have a

1 chairmen
2 sectatary
3 treasure
4 committie

Just like any other BRCA section

So whos up for it

Gazza you are missing my point and mis interpriting my wording. Again my fault for not being clear. By pushing for a singular set of rules I refer to trying to get people to adopt the mardave circuit rules that we have used all summer successfully with the exception of the additive rule which we are a I beleive all opposed to. I think it would be benificial to all who race daves to have one set of common rules then you could race anywhere with the same car and not have any problems or have to spend anymore cash on other motors/speedos etc.
I HAVE not helped to write any rules nor have I ever insisted I have, just wanted to clear that up.

I can also race my mardave brushless system at the Gp as it says the mardave brushless has a class and my car hasnt changed from last year when I raced in that class.

I duno about u Gaz but I am not sure what the difference between a hotrod and a circuit dave is???? I bought mine as a hotrod but that was years ago. Im confused with what the distinction is any ideas?

It would be nice to be able to race both serries with no alterations to the car thats all I am saying and all I am trying to promote.

LOl no problems Tomo

I do like our debates it makes for good reading if we sound over the top to some people sorry but thats what a forum is

I Do respect Tomo dont take me wrong but we seem to be the only people who care enough to try and sort stuff out

But according to some folk there will never be a Mardave V12 section BRCA as there is 1 manufature

Any way have e-mailed BRCA so lets see what happens

As for hot rods again no idea mate as for the GP its pants like we both know a good G2 motor will win like what happened to dean his motor was pants and could not catch Chris ashton as Dean is a really good driver

Hence the 13.5 1s LiPo car its the same all the time. . .

I was beat at Ardent yesterday by the Shepps as they were running a Brushless 4 cell

Come on guys get that LiPo in there

The Mardave series is G2 and M/dave brushless only . . . yep I get that not a problem. . . its Chris's rules . . .
shame he wont put in 13.5 and a 1s LiPo now that would cater for all of us

Gazza wrote:

rules to be put forward etc

My rules are simple . . . I propose 3 class's

1 stock class ( every one who has bought a kit ) G2 motor 4 cell ESC under £69 or wiper board

2 as above but 13.5 1s LiPo Max £150 speedo

3 as above but Mardave brushless OR 10.5 1s lipo or 4cell open ESC

Tyres & bodyshell's

Only Mardave tyres allowed only mardave / kamtec shells allowed NO 1/12th pan car shells
additive is alowed as well as a Mardave diff all ESC must have reverse

Right he's my 2p's worth......

3 class's.....WHY? why not just 2 classes??? brushed (stock) and BL (Modified) running 13.5 or the Mardave system, simples! Mardaves are only going to handle a certain amount of power (like the F1's)

Totally agree on NO 12th shells being used, but to limit them to Kamtec /Mardave WHY??

Totally dissagree on the tyres being ONLY Mardave tyres! how you going to controll that?? Unless you start selling control tyres at meetings already trued and glued and have been specially marked up! What about Gecko tyres that are now being sold by Kamtec??? I know that these worked well on my 12th so should wrk just as good on the Mardave

I've seen TONS of these disscussions on forums and at the AGM (I was there to vote in BL) great reading....but people can also be tunelled visioned somtimes!!

I've entered Sock class for Ardents WInter Series, as I didnt know which class I belonged in (with there being 3 classes listed...now only 2 classes)! I was going to run a Mardave with a 13.5 and NiMh's as thats MY CHOICE......didnt want to run Lipo as I just got rid of all mine plus I got some good 4 cell packs (well I hope they are still good now lol) sitting there not doing anything!

I hope some of that made a little sense, and I hope I aint treaded on anyones toes!

No go for it Lee

why 3 class's

why not ?

well the Mardave Brushless will leave the 13.5 standing thats why Lee

Tyres . . . just some thing I came up with not important just an idea

"and at the AGM (I was there to vote in BL) What agm was that then mate ?

treading on toes LOL no mate just say what you feel thats the idea. . . Keep um coming

Looking at the Winter Series there really aint that much interest with the Mardave (although saying that theres more interest than the F1's) but why do you want to dilute the class even further than needed??

Dont forget there was ONLY 1 class out a year or so ago, and that was brushed....now BL is being used it's diluted the class down, and now you say 3 classes thats gonna dilute it even more??!!

Right I didnt know that Gaz....NEVER run the Mardave BL as I'm not a great fan of Mtroniks since they changed from plastic speedo cases to there heatsink n goop!! ......and thats just my personal choice

Sorry meant to say BRCA Oval AGM.......where a BL was voted in to trail for the Oval section Nationals

Which I think will be droped soon enough due to only two cars at the last two nats!

I think we should keep it as it is as its working fine just anybody turn's up and races there mardave.

But you need to have them scoring diffrentley ie g2's 13.5 1s lipo and brushless this way you dont dilute them into there own races and you should always have a heat???

Just my 1p input

the problem is you do need to segment the classes due to the speed as gaz has said above

the only other way is to say the rules will be

brushed G2 and 4 cell
upto 13.5 brushless and 1s lipo
upto 19t brushless or below with 4 cell


only that way will you keep the mardave racing close and compertertive.

Oh its so hard to explain . . . . .

There is a good following of the G2 & 13.5 brushless at last summer round meeting on Sunday at ardent we had 3 heats of mini's and Daves. . John is selling Mardave's quicker than he can get them

its not diluted at all Lee why they have not booked in for the winter series is a lot of things to take into account

this list is possable for the first round and people will try and book in later I know there is a few not booked in yet and they could be in for a shock thinking turn up and race like it has been

and then the cost £10 or £15 this plays an important factor

as for a year ago of 1 class . . . its possable where you race but here in Leicestershire its G2 and 13.5 for over 2 years now . . .I think in maritime race way they race B/Less and 6 cells

There is more people like me than people realise its. . . just that I try to promote it better . . .The 13.5 is getting more popular than G2 for us old ones who hate the brushed system at one point I had about 12 motors in my workshop that could not beat the likes of Zak, Dean, Mark, and James so thats over £90 in G2 motors comparied to 1 Brushless that is the same week after week and no cleaning the com or comm drops etc then there is the Cell and LiPo discharge and equaliseing factor again for the serious Mardave racer this is taken very serious with 5 packs of cells . .

For me now its One 1s LiPo and one 13.5 motor for the Last 2 years now thats a saving and still going strong 2nd ESC tho I Pluged in wrong way round Doh!!!

as for the "Sorry meant to say BRCA Oval AGM.......where a BL was voted in to trail for the Oval section Nationals "

Yea that was Chris and it back fired he forgot to say a motor Limit LOL

yea well all in all its the G2 and 4 cells which a lot of users still enjoy and if you are starting out in it then I recomend you go this route but for people like me the Brushless 13.5 is for US

@Nick well we all said the sensorless system is pants from the start

@Gazzag well the G2 and 13.5 can run together there is not much differance but the MDave system is mega fast

Right I see now....... I thought 13.5 would be loads quicker than G2 brushed but I stand corrected...

Chris forgot to say that ONLY the Mardave system to be used in the Oval Nats which then opened the gates to the likes of the eZrun system!!

I take it that I wouldnt be able to race my Mardave with 13.5 and Nimh's at the Winter Series????

4_cell_racer wrote:I take it that I wouldnt be able to race my Mardave with 13.5 and Nimh's at the Winter Series????

Correct mate its

G2 4cell OR 13.5 1s Lipo

Gazza wrote:

4_cell_racer wrote:I take it that I wouldnt be able to race my Mardave with 13.5 and Nimh's at the Winter Series????

Correct mate its

G2 4cell OR 13.5 1s Lipo

Can I ask why is that Gaz?

Ok time for another bit of the background into brushless daves

I was then into I.C cars big time untill 3 yrs ago I was
involved in a Real bad car crash ( rear ended by a 17yr old male) I was
stationary and he hit me at about 65 to 70MPH . .


I now have 3 disc's out in my back and later on in life I will be in a wheel chair
So this ended my IC racing and I moved back to electrics only
because of Marshling I cant move to quick and the 30 minute finals I
cant stand that long 5 mins is all about I can take now So Back to my
old favorite the Mardave. . .

It had changed quite a lot from when I last used one and now only
4 cells and the G2 Motor Now after a lot of testing and running this little
car It still gives me a buzz and for the life of me I cant get the power out
of this motor like some of the others and no matter what I done / did I could
never win a Mardave club meeting at top level

There was then talk about Mardave bringing out a Brushless system
YES about time some thing that would put us all on a level playing field
But alas I could not get this to work as well as the others so I abandond
it and went back to the G2

Then the rumors started re the 1s LiPo well this got
me well intrested as I thought a 1s and a 13.5 would be about the same as the G2

Now this 13.5 brushless will only work with the 1s LiPo combination. . . .
dont go trying to run it with a 4 cell or even thinking about a 17.5 and 4 cell
they are NO WHERE NEAR the same as a G2 powered Mardave and 4 cells

I wanted to run a 1s LiPo in a Mardave with a Brushless system that WOULD
be the same as a G2 motor .
I tried a few combinations and they all failed like
Way to fast to slow motors burning out speedos cutting out etc so I have done
all the hard work for you all and the 13.5 with a 1S LiPo with the Smart boost is
all that is needed

So running 4 cell and a brushless is way faster than a brushless and 1s LiPo

Hello again thought I would drop back into this thread as it seems to be taking another twist and turn lol
Its great to get as many points of view on this as possible so that not only the most vocal but evryone gets a say.

Here is the mardave set ups in order of speed from years of results and testing by myself and afew others.
Slowest first-
-old brushed g2 lipo
-old brushed g2 cells
-new g2 lipo
-new g2 cells maginally slower than 13.5 lipo
-13.5 cells
-10.5 lipo is the same as a mardave brushless g2 on lipo curtiousy of advance/turbo functions on sensored speedos
-10.5 cells is the same as a mardave brushless g2 on cells curtiousy of advance/turbo functions on sensored speedos.

I know Gazza may debate that the mardave brushless is faster than the 10.5's it simply isnt I have tried both and run the mardave brushless more than anyone I know. I have back to back run 10.5 lipo and cells vs brushless g2 on lipo and cells and they are a perfect match due to the drivabilty of the 10.5 and massive power you can add with modern speedos and firmware. Which you cannot on the mtronics created mardave brushless at this point, maybe in the future but the tekins/ team waves are still going to be better in my honest opinion.


So what to do?
maybe stick with two classes

13.5 lipo vs the new g2 brushed on cells with a gentlemans agreement not to use the motor advance options or limti spedo cost for the 13.5's this would make them equal as I understand it given Gazza's comments to me in the past saying that at hinkley nick and mark stevens was equal to him down the straight maybe a touch faster using a g2 brushed. Both cars min weight to be 1000g

Then have 10.5 lipo and g2 brushless on lipos with a 50 or 100g lower weight limit in with the 10.5 and brushless g2's on cells.
The weight benifit would give the handling edge to the lower voltage cars making up for the slower speeds down the straight.
The difference isnt huge down the straights between the two so no huge crashes will happen for those who worry.
Also as Lee says, with the f1s and mardaves the tyres and chassis can only produce so much grip and you can only put so much power into the cars before they simply will not be drivable ( trust me ive tried) and the 10.5 on cells/ brushless g2 is about the limit for the chassis.
Tyre wear isnt huge either having used the same front tyres on my dave for 2.5 years now and they still have plenty of life left and I use a set of rears every 3 race meetings so thats every 12 races or so if they dont get chunked of course.

Let me know what you think im sure theres areas i have missed but thats what we are all here for

TOMO wrote:
13.5 lipo vs the new g2 brushed on cells with a gentlemans agreement not to use the motor advance options or limti spedo cost for the 13.5's this would make them equal as I understand it given Gazza's comments to me in the past saying that at hinkley nick and mark stevens was equal to him down the straight maybe a touch faster using a g2 brushed. Both cars min weight to be 1000g

i would like to add to that

or turbo


but from what i have read that is the best class annalasys i have read so far and if the "no turbo" is added i would adhire and follow those rules.

I keep hearing about 4 cell nihms v 1s lipo. But what are the differences in performance. Is there alot between them?

HI Shep their are differences but it depends what motor you run them in conjunction with.
What motor would you be running?
Do you want a cells vs lipo on brushed g2 comparison?

If your going to be running at bedworth then you will need brushed g2 comparison but let me know and I will write something up for you.

hi. I have had my mardave 3 weeks after racing touring cars for years. I am running brushless 13.5 with some old 4 cell nihms i have had for years. I have been racing at ardent and was wanting to run in the winter series. This would mean i would need to run a lipo. I just wanted to find out how a lipo would perform compared to cells..