Wednesday nights racing

Admin wrote:Now that makes sence to me as a layman terms i think to much rule pushing will just disintergrate what is a cheep and cheerfull form of motor sport

Not really Paul lets go with no rules for EG

You all turn up to race a your local club and book in the race director now has

3 cars running 17.5 and 4 cells

2 cars running 13.5 and 4 cells

4 cars running 10.5 and 4 cells

6 cars running 13.5 and 1s LiPo

8 cars running G2 and 4 cells

So we have a club championship and every month trophy's to hand out

But which class gets the trophys PMSL

and at the end of the year the champion is . . . .

so do we need two class's . . . yea of course we do . . .


Guys all im trying to do is get some sort of standard class in the Dave its that simple really . . .
I know you all have strong views even myself but if you went to Touring cars you have two options

1. 10.5
&
2. 13.5

its that simple

so why not the dave class all I have been trying to do is get some sort of standard set thats all

if you have LOADS of cells and dont want to go 13.5 and LiPo then simple stay in the G2 class. . . . BUT please dont mix it up its splitting the class and even my self im geting no where hence I got a GT 1/10th pan car so you could see me moving away from the Dave's as you all want to run what you want but if you want to run Touring cars
you have 2 choices

10.5
&
13.5

it works just look at ardents winter series 16 heats wow

and in 1/12th its 10.5 and 1s LiPo

so why cant we have just the 2 class's

G2 4 cell

&

13.5 1s LiPo

imagine that at ardent I bet we could get at least 8 Heats of daves IF ONLY WE COULD STANDARD THE CLASS'S

right thats me done . . Phew

Not true Gazza brca tc has brought in more tc classes for next year to include speedos with no advance and 17.5 brushless.
I maybe wrong but this is what I hear.


I find it odd that everyone doesnt just use what mardave produces.
(Granted maybe a 540 size brushless of 13.5 on 1s from mardave would be good and open speedo choice upto a price limit of £150 so the old nosrams etc can be used)

yes touring cars have 10.5 and 13.5 ANY ESC, ANY BATTERIES not just lipos!

Thats true but I was refering to next seasons rules where Gazza states that tc has only 13.5 and 10.5 2s lipo theyre expanding the classes aparently.

Just spoke on phone to a guy and yes 17.5 is on BUT advanced timing esc is allowed


Not to sure on the cells guys they may be Banned

4.34.2 All Touring cars will be driven by LiPo cells having a maximum nominal voltage of 7.4 volts.Then delete4.3 ’Pro Stock’ cars will be driven by cells producing a maximum nominal voltage of 7.4 volts. These can be a maximum of six Sub-C sized cells, or by Li-Po cells having a nominal of 7.4 volts.

another bit of info

LiPo – LiFe 4.1 add “Life” and remove “sub-c and LiPo”4.2 “All classes will be driven by LiFe cells having 6.6v nominal”Delete 4.34.4 – request section Committee and EB to amend for best practices with LiFe cells

I think we all (well nearly all) of us agree there should be only 2 classes, brushed and brushless, no sub rules like what cells you can run what mAh they are they must be lipo,..........just 2 classes.

Brushless = any brushless motor battery ESC combo (if you want to be fast race here)

Brushed = G2 4cell v60/g28 maximum price £70ESC as it is now (Stock class because it works)

Simple no messing about 2 classes, if you run 13.5 1's that's your choice but you will be in the brushless class because your using brushless kit, you could also use 17.5 4cell again your choice and you will be in the brushless class so on and so forth, its not difficult just let people decide for them self's,. dont impose rules you can do this you cant do that where's the fun then, if you want to run a brushless setup then do it with all the other brushless guys but leave the brushed formula alone, it works and has worked for a long time longer then i have been racing and i love it.
Time and technology will turn the tide, when the Nimh cell's are faded out then things will change on there own accord because its natural progression, the problem is people are trying to make it change, humans dont like change and as far as i can see there's no reason to change it because it works, dont mix brushless with brushed there is to much contreversie and will be for quite a while yet , when its ready to change it will.

Brushless class and a brushed class that's all that is needed>>>>>>>> keep it simple, there simple cars and fun.


And when the life-Po4 cells really take off and are more widely available this discussion will happen again because of lower nominal voltages so people will want bigger faster motors to compensate ......... where will it end.


Thats about all i have to say about this subject also, dont make it harder then it is or needs to be .... keep it simple....keep it FUN

Yea fair comment Marti
So you guys will all be running in the stock class then at winter series Ardent


Mardave Stock
•Standard G2 motor only.
•Maximum of 4 cell NiMHs allowed
•Bearings allowed all round and rear Diffs are allowed
•Any reversible speedo below £69 allowed


Mardave Brushless Stock Lipo
•As above but any 13.5 brushless motor and speedo
•Maximum 1 cell lipo allowed
•Bearings allowed all round and rear Diffs are allowed

Why dont you just keep it how it is at ardent and bedworth as they have it correct. They both score into seprete championships so then theres no moaning no hastle and some fun.
Why carn't people run cells in with you brushless lot when you can just make the cells into 3cell pack = 3.6v simples. So say max volt of say 3.7 that covers lipo and cells!

good point Nick . . . . 3 cells sounds fair . . . But will it run the radio gear ?

you still need the booster

what about the fact that a top of the range speedo will always be alot quicker than the cheaper options. This wont not be close racing as the difference in performance is massive. So as i said earlier the most expensive speedo motor combo will be the quickest. i thought that the mtroniks g2 brushless combo was the stock esc. If so surley this is the best option for quick, cheap and fair racing.

Yes gaz we will all be running Stock mardaves as per the rules, G2 4cell and ill be using an XRS ESC unless somone could loan me a v60/g28

Drop a nice hint there!

hopefully i should be there is russ is going as i could persuade my dad to take me

HI Gazza, yes you got a point, Chris did start the Brushless class with that Mtroniks system which I think went into shutdown mode with anything less than 5v. People were dissattisfied and you started the 13.5 brushless class. Fair point !

Personally I like the new G2 motors, their far better than the old G2.

The mardave brushless system works very well with no voltage shutdowns or no cogging if you dont overgear them.
Granted they had alot of bad press from people who were given the early units to use but they have been improved no end.
I still use them now and the circuit series guys in the mardave brushless class love them.

The motor is sealed so no messing about, they are plenty pokey enough for the speed junkies and the motors will run for ever with no drop in performance.
The motor I use in mine is 2 and a half years old and is still spot on so cost is minimal.
One thing I would say is allow other brushless speedos that can run a sensorless brushless motor but have a price cap of £150 to allow the older nosrams and lrp sphere etc to be used that people may have in there pit boxes from tc racing that they have had to abandon due to "turbo" speedos dominating.

Allowing "turbo" speedos I think is a mistake but what the hell theres only so much power a dave can put through its wheels onto the track and as with all real racing the limiting factor of speed will be the tyres and the chassis. The skill is not close racing at 5mph its close racing while the driver gets the best from a difficult car to handle at full speed.
Thats why I love old school f1 not so much todays more sanitised f1. To see what I mean check out senna's pole lap of monaco vs any of todays drivers and tell me who you think had the most challenging and skillfull drive but the most rewarding when you got it right and for that reason I love quick mardaves.
If you want to go fast but cant drive them then get a tc or 12th as theyre easy to go fast with but wheres the challenge?

Crank it up and lets go racing

Marti has the same view as me on cells and I think the g2 brushed class is fine as is and will evolve when it has to.

Christ why can we not just run a lipo brushless system and a g2 4 cell to much crap going 3 cells doing this doing that just have the brushless lipo section and a bloody 4 cell g2 as what people are doing 1 its going to kill it dead and 2 its about money and how much wonga you want to spend. I think most of us have a lot of gear to what we race and with other finacial burdens the last thing we want to do is spend more wonga.
let us know as im about tho bin all my stuff cus im sick to the back teeth with what we have to run not run rant over BEEN A LONG SHIFT IM SHAGGED AND NEED A MOAN!!!!!

paul your missing the point mate there is nothing wrong in letting people use three cell if they want to because they dont have lipo but already have nimhs? this way people still get to race? i would like to see peoples views on this :] if you already have lipo stay lipo simples?

If people want to run cells let them or if they want to run 3 cells or 1s lipo, let them.

If you want to balance cars on cells and on lipo the only way to do it is with a lower weight limit for the lower voltage cars as less weight means better handling and better acceleration to match the higher punch the extra Volts a 4 cell pack would give you. Between 50-100g would do the trick.

Or why not take the BTCC way of doing things and have success balast for the top 5 from the previous meeting with first having an extra 100g second 75g then 3rd with 50g and so on.

I know this complicates things but it wouldn't be that hard to enforce compared to motor/speedo regulation.

Just a thought I had, what do you guys think?

Race touring cars 13.5 or 10.5 no restrictions on speedos or batteries simples.

Yes cheque book racing, as it has always been in ALL classes, its a fun thing isnt it

Mardave's

The only class where every one runs what ever they want. . . . PMSL

and you all wonder why there is no rule's for this great little car


for GOD's sake people you cant carry on like this . . . run 3 cell run 4 cell run 17t run 21t turn are you for bloody real when you run the circuit series you follow there rules. . .

My suggestions were smple and out way before the circuit series but for some unknown reason you cant adopt them but you will follow theres ?

I have been at this now for 2 years and you still cant grasp the roots of Mardave racing

as per Paul for that reason im out . . . ill just run me 1s LiPo


right where is me GT pan car

Well all we are doing is having a discussion. The circuit series rules make the most sense bar the additive rule which is going anyway. The racing is close and fun takin in more tracks than just hinkley and ardent and as such has the best claim to being a national series with drivers from all over not just the midlands/Leicestershire
So for that reason I'm in and couldn't be happier with the way it's run robbie and team have put alot of effort in and I thank them.

Right its easy guys i have given this some thought its simple 4 cell g2 1s lipo brushles 13.5 speedo under £65 for 4 cell g2 2 series end of all this crap 3 cells and this that and the other why bust something that is runing if you wana run a mega motor then go in the brushless lets keep the stock class racing close everyone can afford it with in reason

Totally agree with you Paul. Leave g2 for stock style racing an let the brushless go wild they will limit themselves as I say a chassis and Tyres can only take so much. Keep the chassis rules the same but allow any motor and any speedo upto £150 so the wallet element is controlled alittle.

Tomo this so called discussion has been going on for 2 years and people still cant grasp it

IF and a big IF . . . if the mardave brushless system had worked first time around and was good then that would have been that. . . but alas it failed the 13.5 is 100% better hence

I cant put it any simpler than 2 class's

G2 4 cell ( standard class )

13.5 brushless and 1s LiPo ( people like me fed up with Brushed motors )

thats it nothing else matters no other combination matters its just the two class's I cant put it any simpler

Yes it WAS note past tense not great but things change and the motor works and is cheaper than any 13.5 motor on the Market. It is also a sealed motor so no switching rotors or chopping out winding in the can to make a 10.5 in a. 13.5 can. so why not use what mardave produces when they work and last so well. I still don't see any way 13.5 can be regulated without at least a speedo cost limit because it is nuts the difference between a turbo speedo and one without and not all speedos have a stock mode like your ££££ tekin.