Wednesday nights racing

yes i agree. Touring cars have a 13.5t limit but just by watching them you can tell a great difference in speed to the cheap speedos compared to the expensive. A price cap would be a good idea.

Oh how I have missed these Gazza notes, reminds me of how the hinckley forum once was.

I can't say I disagree with you gazza because at the end of the you do need some restraint otherwise the classes will become more diluted and people loose interest just as you appear to be doing now. But.....

change in inevitable, the new turbo speedos are here and they do make a substantial difference( I myself would like the Mardave standard class to remain as is, 4 cell, brushed G2 with diffs and front bearing if wished), so why not evaluate the 17.5t with a brushless speedo, at the end of the day this is allegly a starter class, it shouldn't be too fast but fast enough. But I think Lipo should remain as brushless whilst niml cells are still available.

Richard

Could the likes of Richie gazza and Tomo get their heads together and try and push a set of rules to the BRCA something set in concrete as these guys know their stuff!!!!!

There are already rules in place if you want to run stock then it is g2 and 4 cell anything else is in the super dave class if racing the mardave series , and if it is at ardent then leave it as stock g2 4cell and then have a brushless class , all clubs will deviate slightly from this but thats to be expected as they cater to the racers that run at said club , its pretty simple , stock racing was fine many years before the invention of brushless so why fiddle with it ? there are more g2 racers out there than brushless , so unless you run in the stock class with a g2 on 4 cell then you really dont have a place to comment on rules within said class , unless you want to ditch the brushless kit and be the same as everyone else

well put Dale i have g2 four cell also 13,5 brushless 4 cell as well i agree stock should be stock

IMO

Stock should stay as stock - 4 cell & G2

13.5/1S - needs a little more structure, I think it needs reining in a little to make it more popular, the costs to go fast have gone way out of control. And I'm sure i've now heard of people having to turn their cars down. I for one don't see it as cheaper, you only have to look at the quick guys to see that there is a good few hundred poored into the electronics. Introducing a Non-Turbo ESC rule would bring down the costs instantly and possibly even cap the motor RRP or introduce a control motor.

Alex

thats a good shout on the motor mate , we use controlled motors in brushed and that works for us

marauder1706 wrote:There are already rules in place

Sorry there is no rules for the circuit series at the moment just some PROPOSED rules that were made up for it

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]ProposedV12NationalSeriesBRCARules.pdf

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As this is on the Mardave site I think its what Chris propose's he would LIKE to have

But deffo no BRCA rules as such

Ok Then guys why not pool the idea's and make a draft one up count me out tho as i know not to much about these little buggers but im sure with the amount of guys from diffrent tracks between you all could come up with a set of rules

DALE RUGBY

GAZZA HINCKLEY / ARDENT

RICHIE RUGBY / BEDWORTH

TOMO /?

can you see what im trying to say Alex his halfway there with what he says as well

To be truthful guys, I have never raced a brushless, and so I don't feel sufficiently knowledgable on the subject to offer draft racing rules. I just think the 13.5t class is too powerful which is why I was suggesting a trial of 17.5. I have run these in touring car quite successfully, yes I know we have 3.7v more to play with on a 2 cell lipo than a single cell, but wondered what it would be like.

I dont race at rugby paul , i am a DDMCR man for my dave racing bedworth indoors is a stop gap for me till DDMCR gets sorted again

richie wrote:To be truthful guys, I have never raced a brushless, . . . . 17.5. I have run these in touring car quite successfully,

Make ya mind up Richard

Gazza you have quoted two seperate sentences as one. Rich was refering to he's not driven a brushless mardave but has had experience with 17.5 brushless in tc at bedworth.

I dont think there is anything wrong with letting brushless use the cheap compaired to a good 13.5, MARDAVE made sold and regulated motor which is sealed as per the same style as G2 stock racing.
The motor is sensorless which makes it robust but also very simple.
The cogging issue was down to the speedo and the speedo set up in the early mtronics units and is no longer an issue but to allow other speedos to be used I think is fair and a good idea, Again same as the g2 class (motor controlled, speedo open upto a price).
The price limit for the brushless speedo would need some thought and research.

As for the batteries in brushless I would say leave it open between lipo and nimhs but allow the lipo cars to run 100g lighter which would more than make up for the lower voltage. Giving better braking, turning, cornering and maybe slightly better acceleration with the right gearing etc.

G2 class in my opinion doesnt need to change. It works and this debate has gone on fo ryears and will continue to. But as I dont tend to race this class except on a wensday night It not for me to comment.

richie wrote:To be truthful guys, I have never raced a brushless, and so I don't feel sufficiently knowledgable on the subject to offer draft racing rules. I just think the 13.5t class is too powerful which is why I was suggesting a trial of 17.5. I have run these in touring car quite successfully, yes I know we have 3.7v more to play with on a 2 cell lipo than a single cell, but wondered what it would be like.

he said NEVER RACED a brushless weather in a dave or not . . . Never means never but has run one in a TC

so I never drive my real car I only drive it to the shops

Gaz its implied and you know rich personally so you must have some idea of what he is saying. Any rate rich will clarify im sure.

OK I have never raced a brushless in a Mardave except for the early Mtroniks which was great except it wouldn't last a race out.

I believe Mardave is a part entry class and competitively raced on small club circuits, of which Hinckley is an exception. I therfore have no objection to what Gazza races at Hinckley, but generally I think the 13.5 brushless is to powerful for the majourity of racers on small tracks, especially with the invention of turbo speedos. Furthermore the high end units are to expensive compared to the cost of a chassis and this puts the best equipment outside the range of many.

This is why the G2 class has remained so successful.

So to summarise, I think the 13.5t brushless is to powerful for a Mardave, to sophisticated, to expensive and possible to heavy, but gazza clearly get his to work.

oh Richard . . . . .

And the good races Becky and I had were great she won me a few times and I her

So not to fast are they

Yes with your older brushless system which was the lrp one you first started off with i remember the races well which was good and close.
no one was pulling away from anybody so it was fair

Not now when you brushless lot can pull away from the g2's down the straight i dont think thats fair also you can turn your throttle profiles ect where the g2's cannot so you gain another advantage there that you did not have with the first lrp system you had Also you improved on your brushless motors that you can turn your endbell timing up g2's cannot so theres another advantage there.
If i go and put a stock 27t motor in you brushless lot will moan so why did you change motors and speedo's when the first systems where fair and close racing?
Yes i remember you blew then up your fault or not why did you upgrade them to better systems all the time? why not stick to the fusion system like the most of the others have? and you would have saved a few £. Before you ask i would have changed from my lrp sphere digital + Gm13.5 to a fusion system once this class was sorted out with rules ect.

Hey ho thats my view guys if you dont like it tuff!

Nick I still think they need to be seperate classes they are too different and once the techs there it will be used whether theres a gentlemans agreement or not.

I also believe that the ability to "turn up" or turn down the speed of a car creates an artificial race and is not a race by definition to compete in a contest of speed????!!!!!!
By that token then fixing the speed of one car relative to another could be seen as no longer a race.
In my eyes and understanding a race is a competion to see who can get to the end first,
Not matching others laptime by either being slower on the infield or quicker down the straight or vice versa.
Yes you will have a close race but its not a race anymore. If you want to drive next to someone for lap after lap do drifting coz thats what its all about and you can go as slow or as fast as you want.

drifting could make a comeback

4 wheel drive mardave

This is my opinion, but once the brushless systems took off, the speed seemed to increase quite dramitically. If I recall one of the team racers needed to run a tamiya sport motor just to try and compete and even then the motor went off the boil towards the end of the race. That was at Midland Electric.

But all this suggests they are not compatible, it does mean there isn't a place for them. If people want to race them then why not. But I don't think they should compete together. Just my 10 peneth.

stox217 wrote:Yes with your older brushless system which was the lrp one you first started off with i remember the races well which was good and close.
no one was pulling away from anybody so it was fair

Yep was good fun Nick

Not now when you brushless lot can pull away from the g2's down the straight i dont think thats fair also you can turn your throttle profiles ect where the g2's cannot so you gain another advantage there that you did not have with the first lrp system you had Also you improved on your brushless motors that you can turn your endbell timing up g2's cannot so theres another advantage there.

Right this is intresting as I have only raced my mardave twice at hinckley in the last series as I was racing my F1 I have not raced against you at all nick with my new ESC so thats intresting And I dont think its fair that the so called new G2's should wipe the floor with the brushless system




If i go and put a stock 27t motor in you brushless lot will moan so why did you change motors and speedo's when the first systems where fair and close racing?

Err again I have not raced with you nick so I dont know what you are trying to prove here But WHY DID you change motors and ESC as well


Yes i remember you blew then up your fault or not why did you upgrade them to better systems all the time?

Simple no one had any in stock and all that I could get was what ever the shops had in is that ok or shall I phone you to see what I can or cannot buy

why not stick to the fusion system like the most of the others have? and you would have saved a few £.

And you stick to your old system and old motor as well mate . . .I did save pounds you dont know what SPONSOR deal I got

Before you ask i would have changed from my lrp sphere digital + Gm13.5 to a fusion system once this class was sorted out with rules ect.

lost me I thought you were running G2

Hey ho thats my view guys if you dont like it tuff!

Also I noticed that the results were very close if you look on the Hinckley forum results page so the last season round 3 from Jan 20102 was close and as you HAVE NOT RACED me untill 3 weeks ago WHEN ALL TIMING AND TURBO WAS OFF . . . . great ASSumption

and thats my reply and if you dont like it double tuff. . . . .

Gazza, go take some pills, be seeing you Saturday if you can be bothered to turn up.

Yes its the old man here, and boy do you talk some crap!

oh yea ill be there Saturday you can bank on it fed up of ya bull crap as well

oh you mean I caught you out yet again

Oh and thanks for reminding me on me pills I almost forgot PMSL


Edit. . .

Sorry for not bothering to turn up due to me cold / flu you must have been rely upset. . Im touched mark it brings a tear to my eye


but I do have some papers for you

ok guys cool it no point taking this personal everyone has the right to their views but this is going down the wrong path it was a cracking debate Mark if you are going to use nicks log in would it not be better to register yourself so you can put a name to your opinions not behind your sons log in not fair not right.
Now guys can we get this back on track
we have had loads of cracking input about batts speed controllers etc lets keep it clean